There is quite simply no shame in not sticking around and taking responsibility for your actions. I think the solution simply is we as a community need to literally shame these men who do not take responsibility, and make them realise it is not normal behaviour. Even an animal would not leave their child/ren so why do some men feel it is okay ? Children are being raised thinking it is normal to have just one parent around, it's not.

The article by the BBC [referring to the House of Commons Select Committee report into 'Young Black Men and the Criminal Justice System', published 18.06.07] is in my opinion just another way to demonise Black people. We know what the issues are, so what was their motive for highlighting the issues ? They are certainly not offering any solutions or help. It was merely another way the media like to show us as imbeciles who can't keep our house in order. There are definitely issues but we also have many good people who are doing all they can to help us up as a community but why are they never shown or highlighted ? Because it doesn't go along with image or stereotype that they have of black people. Don't always believe the hype, the media have a motive for always portraying the negative."

Louisa

"A very lively discussion that raised some important issues in relation to men. Positive efforts were made by all present to find solutions to the issues affecting men, predominantly young black men.

Some interesting and surprising statistics were quoted by David Mulholland, that mixed race people were more likely to be victims of crime, whilst young black men least likely to be. I disagree with these figures and am not sure they relate to urban cities like London.

We had some good examples from David and host Amadeus about dealing appropriately with disputes in public without disrespecting others and behaving aggressively in a way that doesn't achieve satisfactory outcomes. Amadeus cited an incident re a youth behaving badly in public whereby he intervened to ask the young man to take his feet off the bus seat and not only that, once his request was met, explained the value of 'respect' for others property to the young man. A fine inspiring example of community spirit, something I often do myself."

Gloria

REVIEW

'Boys II Men III - Are Men In Crisis ?'  was held on 15 June 2007 at the prestigious Royal Commonwealth Society to discuss if men were in Crisis. The event was hosted by Amadeus with Donald Mack and David Mulholland on the panel.

This was a free ranging discussion where the audience fully participated and Amadeus  kept order  amongst audience and panellists alike.

The discussion though aimed at men in general, tended to focus on Black British men (either African, Caribbean or those who were born in Britain).

A wide range of topics were covered. Some of the pertinent points are higlighted below :

a) The dynamic of race needed to be understood and the alleged issues that put men in crisis needed to be understood within the context of post-slavery history.

b) Before lessons or comparisons could be drawn with the US experience, it must be taken into account that though Black people in the States don't have equality, they have more opportunities than here in the UK. For instance, though we have a welfare state to fall back on, they have a stronger culture of achievement.

c) Invisibility of Middle Class/achieving Blacks in the UK. The point here being that the media disproportionately focusses on the troubles that plague Black men and never shows Black men in a positive light. As a consequence, the "normal" black men who are achieving may not be visible to young (black) male youth to provide them with positive role models.

d) Invisibility of positive Black children. It was suggested that black children needed to have their horizons broadened so that they could be aware that they could achieve in areas beyond sport and music. It was further discussed that those Black children in the community who were on a more positive path were usually known by the police and others in authority so they suffered less from the issues of institutional racism meted out by the Police, Educational authorities and others.

e) Responsibility of Parents. It was noted that parents had a key role to play in opening in their children’s minds to the possibilities out there. However, it some lamented that parents themselves were "kids" sometimes who had issues that they had to deal with before they could support their children appropriately.

f) Demonisation of Black children. It was noted that not all children were "failing," nor in particular were Black boys failing. It was important that in discussing this issue facts were set within the appropriate context.

g) Black men and Crime. The question was raised if the issue at the heart of this discussion was whether it was the case that there was an intrinsic crisis within the community of Black males, or whether they were being targets both as boys and young men (as reflected in the title of the talk - "Boys to Men"). Some statistics and studies were highlighted that showed that they are more likely to the victims of crime.

Also the issues of Institutional Racism was raised here. Facts such as Black men are more likely to be stopped (x3) and 3 times more likely to have DNA samples taken  from them were noted.

The lack of progress on this central issue of crime and blacks despite the fact that attention had been paid to it during the 70's, 80's and 90's was noted.

h) More sophisticated racism. The point was raised that though blatant racism was being rooted out, there was still a more insidious form of racism that remained. This meant that Black men and parents of Black kids needed to know how to play the system. A simple example was given. When going to court, they should wear suits and put "their best foot forward". Otherwise, it would be more likely that it would be the more middle class white kids who would get away with the same crimes because their parents played the system better.

i) Responsibility of the Family. It was noted that Black men, especially those who were parents, needed the support of the wider community. There needed for example to be more mentors for men who themselves came from broken homes to help them and their children to break free of the issues that this situation might cause.

j) "Boys to Men" a rite of passage. A lot of people contributed to the fact that whilst black boys were "boys" they achieved fine but it was when they went through the change from boys to Men that a lot of issues started to arise.

k) Media influence. The importance of the media was discussed. It was noted that Tim Campbell (the 1st winner of ‘The Apprentice’), for instance, was a good example of positive media influence. However, it was sad that he was such a rare instance of that sort of positive media being out there.

l) Catch them young. It was suggested the interventions to help young Black Men/Boys needed to happen at a young age. It was almost as if, lessons were not drummed in at ages 7 or younger, then in some cases it might be at best harder to rectify the situation or at worst too late.

m) Consider all the options. It was noted that there was a tendency to demonise Black Youth Culture. It was suggested that it might be better to try and harness Young Black Kids natural interest in youth culture (eg MTV, computer games, sport, etc) and use this as a channel to impart more positive messages. Or at least to gain "real" contact and connection with young people and help them understand wider issues by understanding better where they are coming from rather than dismissing them and their culture out of hand straight away without engaging with them.

[N.B. The next Tiemo Talk of The Town debate on 26 July 2007 continues this aspect of the debate as it investigates whether or not MTV, hip-hop/Rap music is infact a positive, negative or even neutral factor in today's youth culture and the seeming increase in murder of and between young people in 2007].

At heart, the plea was that if Men/Boys are in Crisis all options should be considered because all kids/men are individuals so they are likely to pick up positive messages from different sources. Opportunities to be able to do good should not be lost because we as "adults" dismiss too quickly youth culture.

n) Famous people as Role Models/Parents as role models. It was noted that parents needed to take on board that though the media has a role to play, for most children, it is their own mothers and fathers who will be the most influential people in their lives. So it is good to have and encourage positive media but at the end of the day, it is the parents in the kids lives who play the most important part.

Raymond Rweyemamu

Next debate : Thursday 26 July 2007. 7pm Toynbee Hall.

Click link below for full information.